Hype 
Swine flu may be less potent than first feared

No kidding. Just like SARS, Bird Flu, Killer Bees, the coming Ice Age, Global Warming, and so on. *yawn*

torsten 
Why are you lumping in "global warming" with those other things?

It seems like an IQ test question where you look for the one that doesn't belong

FWIW, I was never afraid of swine flu, peanut salmonella or killer Iraqazoids

Administrator (Brian) 
What are...things that the media hypes, Alex.

torsten 
What are...things that the media hypes, Alex.

Oh

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie ... rring.html

Media hype (or not) has nothing to do with scientific opinion

Administrator (Brian) 
I've been busy. Has scientific opinion warned us about a coming Ice Age yet? Well, no matter. "Climate Change" is replacing "Global Warming" anyway. It's good to get that CYA into the vernacular as early as possible.

torsten 
Has scientific opinion warned us about a coming Ice Age yet?

No

Administrator (Brian) 
That's a relief. I am eyeing some property in central Jersey that, if all goes according to plan, should be beachfront within a few years. I am also looking into venture capital to start a gondola service that will take tourists and lovers through the streets of Manhattan (a la Venice) once it's got a foot or two of water over the streets. I already have an Italian friend with appropriate attire lined up to pose for the promotional billboards. A coming Ice Age would force me to rethink my strategy.

torsten 
http://www.jimpryor.net/teaching/vocab/strawman.png

And, actually, strewing our only planet with all kinds of trash because Ayn Rand says that environmentalism is for pinkos isn't really that funny

But when the air in American cities is full of a dense, choking smog like in Beijing or Kuala Lumpur, at least we'll know that Big Gubbermint got out of the way

Administrator (Brian) 
Many American cities used to be like that (Cleveland, Pittsburgh) and now they are clean. No high-paying factory jobs anymore, no industrial backbone to support three or four generations of workers anymore, but at least they're clean. Government forced them to clean up but what what really cleaned them up was when the plants closed down and the jobs went overseas. The market (with help from unions) took care of the problem.

torsten 
Environmental degradation is worse than structural unemployment.

This is what happens, for example, when an oil firm is allowed to operate without restraint:

http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/wp- ... tion-1.jpg

Yes, the noxious rainbow of oil byproducts in that water is not a Photoshop job by the liberal media. Yes, people actually use that water for drinking, bathing and washing. Yes, they do get cancer at abnormally high rates.

So you see environmentalism isn't just for tea-drinking, quiche-eating liberal pinko postmodernist feminist literary criticism professor tree-huggers who hate America, it's for anyone with a shred of conscience. Images like us show us that maybe, just maybe, indulging in shallow materialism every day is not quite as important as the fact that other humans are forced to drink poisoned water.

Administrator (Brian) 
I've been seeing images like that long before anyone conjured up the term global warming/climate change/whatever it will called next and I will agree with your last sentence to a point. However, people who comprise a society must fight for their rights and stand up when they are trampled on - no one is just going to give them clean water to drink especially not some liberal teen or college-age kid in America who says he/she cares for the environment but can't find one of the 800 friggin recycle bins on campus or even in their own house because he/she is too busy texting Mary Jane Rottencrotch on their iPhone which was made by someone making 13 cents an hour while wearing their DC sneakers made by someone earning 6 cents an hour isn't going to solve a tainted water problem in South America by showing up at some rally. Try taking away a teen's car and tell them to bike it everywhere for one week for the good of the environment. Try taking away that cell phone and tell them this cell phone is representative of slave labor practices - using it condones this. Good luck with that. (BTW, this is a generalization, I am not implying this is you). The best way to help is move there and teach the people what you can. For most Americans, this is not practical though. So, we give to charities and hope they manage the money right. We elect leaders who say they'll help but that becomes a crapshoot once they are in office and the lobbyists start pecking away. America cannot solve all the world's problems but we try and we probably try a lot hard than anyone else does.

I think we agree a lot more than we disagree.


torsten 
However, people who comprise a society must fight for their rights and stand up when they are trampled on

Yes, but it's very hard for minority ethnic groups who have essentially lived with stone age technology until, well, pretty recently to take on a huge multinational corporation.

This is a glib way of saying things, but the burden is not an 50 kg asthmatic to turn back a mugger.

not some liberal teen or college-age kid in America who says he/she cares for the environment but can't find one of the 800 friggin recycle bins on campus or even in their own house because he/she is too busy texting Mary Jane Rottencrotch on their iPhone which was made by someone making 13 cents an hour

Actually, here's the supply chain for (legit) iPhones:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/148/3622 ... 460d3c.jpg

Most of the iPhone manufacturing is done in what are essentially first world countries: Singapore, Taiwan and the USA, and conditions in the final assembly plant in Shenzhen appear to be good, if only out of necessity: they need to be very hygienic:

http://news.metaparadigma.de/wp-content ... girl_3.jpg

(Illegit iPhones are made in China using an advanced, inexpensive Taiwanese circuit board technology that even a homebrewer can use, but they tend to be sloppy with the power supply, so don't buy them; they're dangerous)

Try taking away a teen's car and tell them to bike it everywhere for one week for the good of the environment. Try taking away that cell phone and tell them this cell phone is representative of slave labor practices - using it condones this. Good luck with that.

Personally, I walk in and out of Allentown and Bethlehem all summer. It's not all bad actually. It's rough to walk something like 20 km but even Hamilton Street is nice to walk down.

But, anyway, adults fall prey to materialism just as much as young ones. If you look at advertising from the 20's and earlier, it's the kind I would like to see: informative, all about the features of a product, no more. Now advertising has become a shockingly powerful manipulation engine that seems to convince people to do things that will only make them unhappy in the long run, regardless of how old they are.

Administrator (Brian) 
Most of the iPhone manufacturing is done in what are essentially first world countries

Perhaps; but that doesn't imply working conditions are superior and wages are respectable.

But, anyway, adults fall prey to materialism just as much as young ones

Absolutely. Don't get me started.

torsten 
Perhaps; but that doesn't imply working conditions are superior and wages are respectable.

Working conditions are necessarily good for electronics manufacturing

Wages are probably pretty decent relative to their respective countries

Singapore is actually a fairly expensive place to live in

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